Oh man. I had a chiropractor appointment myself recently 'cause of a car wreck. Glad to see I'm not the only person who feared for their life when the man in charge grabbed your head like he was Steve Seagal. Harrowing.
r21187
Submitted by r21187 on June 7, 2010 - 5:29pm.
JAJAAJAJA YOU KILL ME
"grabbed your head like he was Steve Seagal. Harrowing"
and she says
"this is it
this is how ends2
you know this never had happen to me but if some days happen to me i will stay quiet and maybe fall from table just to scared the shit out of him
for real
Marin
Submitted by Marin on May 31, 2010 - 1:11am.
I feel your pain.
I really do.
I went once and never went back, because, like you, I feared for my life. Though my back did feel better...
Still, Painkillers had the same effect and those didn't hurt!
Awsome comic as always :D
Valandra
Submitted by Valandra on May 31, 2010 - 1:12am.
I feel your pain....spent 6 months in re-education, after a back operation...and yeah they liked to make me bend in impossible ways...and the cracking noise was awefull.
Taolan8472
Submitted by Taolan8472 on May 31, 2010 - 1:16am.
Chiropractors are awesome. You will love them -after- they're done with you, but I've yet to meet anybody that -enjoyed- their first session when they had some serious posture problem or what have you.
hDart
Submitted by hDart on May 31, 2010 - 2:03am.
My mom keeps trying to get me to go. I dunno...
moxicity
Submitted by moxicity on May 31, 2010 - 2:20am.
Hmm... you know, the interesting thing is, chiropractics is, in theory, total crockery - since the guy that invented it was not a doctor and just pulled it out of his butt, in short. Also, in some cases, it *could* seriously hurt you. Personally, I wouldn't trust a person who could've gotten his "license" online (seriously - you can become a chiropractor by taking an online test, or so I've heard said).
I wonder why people aren't more aware of its questionable legitimacy? Or do they simply choose not to believe it, which is the case with homeopathy and whatnot. And why it actually helps some people, despite having little actual research and medical knowledge to back it up? Judging by the comments and general talk, I've heard some people are helped by it.
Note: I'm talking about the old-school chiropractic, which insists on things like "vertebral subluxation" and "innate intelligence" and whatnot. Supposedly, in cases of back pain, administered by a skilled person in the appropriate way, it can be beneficial. I hear modern chiropractors are also into exercises and whatnot, so with back pains, that helpful part kind of makes sense. I have huge problems and pain with my weak back, and I basically just do exercises to strengthen my core muscles and flexibility at home.
Long comment is long! So, uh... /end
JohnnieCanuck
Submitted by JohnnieCanuck on May 31, 2010 - 4:31am.
Can opener, meet can of worms!
D.D. Palmer claimed to have received the concept of chiropractic from spiritist séances with a dead physician, a Dr. J. Atkinson. He considered himself the founder of a religion and argued that the practice of the chiropractic faith was protected by the US Constitution.
I don't think it is a co-incidence that he put this together at the time that Röntgen's X-Rays were becoming popular with doctors and many different kinds of quacks. Full body X-Rays were de rigeur during the early days of chiropractry, to detect those all important subluxations. Not so much anymore, one hopes.
The main benefits a chiropractor provides are psychological. Besides the all important placebo effect, s/he will typically spend more time with the patient and develop a closer relationship than you will likely get from a harried doctor. First they have to get you to agree to come back three times a week (or whatever your medical plan can be taken for) and then they have to keep you coming back.
Pretty much the only real benefit for back pain etc, will be when the chiropractor has some skill in massage and/or physiotherapy.
One of the riskiest procedures is that neck manipulation you showed. It can damage an artery, leading to an aneurism or a stroke. In fact people who already have a damaged vertebral or carotid artery may have symptoms of neck pain which prompt them to go to the chiropractor. Death or brain damage may then ensue, sometimes right there on the table.
Temporarily 'straightening' your spine to promote the flow of your "Innate Intelligence" through your body is not how you cure "95% of diseases", let alone back pain.
Where would engineering be, if revelation from spirits were the source of all information? Trust science. Peer reviewed, repeatable science.
/hobby horse.
Jay
Submitted by Jay on May 31, 2010 - 4:38am.
Man, you guys are making this way scarier.
Quix_The_Jester
Submitted by Quix_The_Jester on May 31, 2010 - 7:39am.
Your posture in the first panel makes me giggle. Just makes me think "Igor raise the chains! Yeeessss Massster, eeehhhh!"
General Specific
Submitted by General Specific on May 31, 2010 - 9:08am.
Cut to next comic where Jam is in a wheel chair, suing the pants of the "Doctor"
Jam
Submitted by Jam on May 31, 2010 - 10:43am.
I'm not going to get involved in this whether-or-not-Chairopractors-are-blahblahblah discussion.
The facts of the matter are that he had a medical degree, he works in a full-on clinic, he was super professional, he never once tried to sell me $800 orthopaedic shoes and it helped. I believe it was more than placebo effect, I do had to do some work on my own to correct my own posture and strengthen/relax various muscles.
There are definitely shady doctors out there, but I wouldn't dismiss the whole practice. It's really not that different from ergonomics or physical therapy.
Serbian Goth
Submitted by Serbian Goth on May 31, 2010 - 11:48am.
JAM!NOOOOOOO!
Omg why does it always end during the most intense part,WILL SHE SURVIVE?! XO
=D
Alise
Submitted by Alise on May 31, 2010 - 12:37pm.
I always dread when they turn my neck. I swear they're about to kill me.
misseriin
Submitted by misseriin on May 31, 2010 - 12:53pm.
I had a free massage done once and it was like this.
I thought the lady was going to kill me, I kept hearing cracks I thought were my body breaking in half!
Xelmon
Submitted by Xelmon on May 31, 2010 - 2:09pm.
MmmmMmmm... It helped with my neck when my chrio attacked it with electrics and cracking. Craptastic C2-3 decided to get back at me after years of bad sleep positions.
I actually have to go back since it's gotten worse from falling on my tailbone from snowboarding. Oh man, that felt bad... D-X
I've also been tossing the idea of saying (*$# it, and just go in and get a (IIRC) cortisol shot in the neck and just be done with it.
Inyalin
Submitted by Inyalin on May 31, 2010 - 4:36pm.
I have only ever heard stories of chiropractors like this. The one in my little town practices something called *active* chiropractics, which is not like this at all. They use a little thing that looks a bit like a pogo stick with a trigger, which they use in various places along your spine to realign it with enough force to move things, but quickly enough that it doesn't hurt. No pain, no damage, fifteen minutes max, and I walk out feeling far, far better (and it isn't just placebo, things do move around and you soon learn to tell when you're not quite in alignment).
I started going to the chiropractor two or three times a year (yes, that's all you need - when I started I was pretty messed up from terrible posture and I came back about once a month for four months or so) a few years ago, and I have definitely benefited from it.
So I'm not entirely sure why so many of these seemingly-useless chiropractors abound when this seems to work just fine ... but hey! Anecdotal evidence. I could be totally wrong.
dude
Submitted by dude on May 31, 2010 - 5:05pm.
Chiropractic has shown some benefits to suffers of lower back pain. But seriously, don't let them mess with your neck.
Let them manipulate everything else if you want to, but avoid the neck.
Lafcadio
Submitted by Lafcadio on May 31, 2010 - 9:15pm.
I am not one of those quick to anger hardened science fans, but I think you are better off trying something tried and true and well defined...There are just too many things that can go wrong with stuff like Chiropractic practice. And we are talking about someone (namely, your) well-being.
(Just not wanting to see the author of my favorite webcomic get crippled, etc...)
Jam
Submitted by Jam on May 31, 2010 - 11:27pm.
Guys the comics run several weeks behind my actual life, I have already had several treatments.
Xelmon
Submitted by Xelmon on June 2, 2010 - 1:34pm.
I'm pretty sure we're just sharing experiences and opinions by this point...
Doink9731
Submitted by Doink9731 on May 31, 2010 - 11:32pm.
I heard that chiropractors were responsible for every bad thing that's ever happened.
JohnnieCanuck
Submitted by JohnnieCanuck on May 31, 2010 - 11:57pm.
A Medical Degree? Really? He actually said that he is an MD? That would be unusual, it seems to me.
Maybe you mean he has a Doctor of Chiropractic Degree (DC) or he is a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (ND).
Engineering is grounded in evidence based science. You wouldn't use Feng Shui or water dowsing in a design, would you? Why risk your neck, literally? Quit while you've a head.
Jam
Submitted by Jam on June 1, 2010 - 12:23am.
Sheesh!
moxicity
Submitted by moxicity on June 1, 2010 - 1:35am.
Hmmmm... can of worms successfully opened?? Ahaha... sorry, Jam!
I *am* pretty pro-science in how I try to think and process things, so I'm fairly skeptical about many alternative medicine methods. As I pointed out and like others pointed out, it can be beneficial, especially if they guy knows physiotherapy and massage. In that case it's probably a pretty awesome help for back problems.
But, yknow... I'm just sayin'... not entirely grounded in sound science. Maybe it's a bit of a harsh view to take, to doubt *nigh everything*, but I personally don't think being more lax in criticising unsound or fantastical practices is the way to go. It will end with you cramming down homeopathic remedies and praying to Fzn, the Smaller God of Back Pain Relief, I tell you!! Well, I'm kidding. As long as you get/got help and your situation has improved, I guess it's alright and like you said, that particular guy is probably legit. So no worries. Cheers!
Greeny
Submitted by Greeny on June 1, 2010 - 7:20am.
The chance of having a stroke from cervical vetebral manipulation from chiropracting is low, anywhere between 1 in 400,000 to 1 in over a million. If it was any higher regulatory bodies i guess would have stepped in by now.
Done properly and within the proper scope of practice, chiropracting is a relatively safe albeit alternative approach to care. I know there are a lot of people who want an approach based on soley on hard science, but even in conventional Western medicine there are a lot of things that we know work, but dont understand or, in some cases, understand but dont know whether they work.
Ps Angela, love the comic: long time reader, first time commenter. Keep it up! :)
This study does not examine the rate at which chiropractic manipulation leads to stroke. What it examines is the rate at which stroke is caused by chriopractic manipulation, and damningly indicates that chiropractic manipulation is the leading cause of stroke in under 45s (a stroke patient of the type they examined is five times more likely to have visited a chiropractor than a non-stroke patient).
Nowhere does it support the claim that the chance of stroke from chiropractic manipulation is low.
There are definitely benefits to chiropractic manipulation for back pain. However, they are the same as the benefits from real medicine like massage therapy, which is unsurprising since the techniques are almost identical. The only thing that modern chiropractors do differently is that they use brief, high-velocity impact instead of steady pressure, which increases the risks without adding anything demonstrably useful.
Here's an aphorism to remember: chiropractic == massage plus danger. Go to a massage therapist if you want the same results without the risks. Probably hurt less too.
Coyote8
Submitted by Coyote8 on June 1, 2010 - 7:39am.
I love the posture in the first panel XD Reminds me of one of my friends. I'm always telling her "STAND UP STRAIGHT!!"
I've been seeing a chiropractor like 1-3 times a year for around 8 years now. Started with a BMX injury, but now I go whenever I just can't seem to get rid of "that pinch" in my spine.
Reading the comments though, it seems like chiropractic is a great way to commit suicide O_O
Comments
Oh man. I had a chiropractor appointment myself recently 'cause of a car wreck. Glad to see I'm not the only person who feared for their life when the man in charge grabbed your head like he was Steve Seagal. Harrowing.
JAJAAJAJA YOU KILL ME
"grabbed your head like he was Steve Seagal. Harrowing"
and she says
"this is it
this is how ends2
you know this never had happen to me but if some days happen to me i will stay quiet and maybe fall from table just to scared the shit out of him
for real
I feel your pain.
I really do.
I went once and never went back, because, like you, I feared for my life. Though my back did feel better...
Still, Painkillers had the same effect and those didn't hurt!
Awsome comic as always :D
I feel your pain....spent 6 months in re-education, after a back operation...and yeah they liked to make me bend in impossible ways...and the cracking noise was awefull.
Chiropractors are awesome. You will love them -after- they're done with you, but I've yet to meet anybody that -enjoyed- their first session when they had some serious posture problem or what have you.
My mom keeps trying to get me to go. I dunno...
Hmm... you know, the interesting thing is, chiropractics is, in theory, total crockery - since the guy that invented it was not a doctor and just pulled it out of his butt, in short. Also, in some cases, it *could* seriously hurt you. Personally, I wouldn't trust a person who could've gotten his "license" online (seriously - you can become a chiropractor by taking an online test, or so I've heard said).
I wonder why people aren't more aware of its questionable legitimacy? Or do they simply choose not to believe it, which is the case with homeopathy and whatnot. And why it actually helps some people, despite having little actual research and medical knowledge to back it up? Judging by the comments and general talk, I've heard some people are helped by it.
Note: I'm talking about the old-school chiropractic, which insists on things like "vertebral subluxation" and "innate intelligence" and whatnot. Supposedly, in cases of back pain, administered by a skilled person in the appropriate way, it can be beneficial. I hear modern chiropractors are also into exercises and whatnot, so with back pains, that helpful part kind of makes sense. I have huge problems and pain with my weak back, and I basically just do exercises to strengthen my core muscles and flexibility at home.
Long comment is long! So, uh... /end
Can opener, meet can of worms!
D.D. Palmer claimed to have received the concept of chiropractic from spiritist séances with a dead physician, a Dr. J. Atkinson. He considered himself the founder of a religion and argued that the practice of the chiropractic faith was protected by the US Constitution.
I don't think it is a co-incidence that he put this together at the time that Röntgen's X-Rays were becoming popular with doctors and many different kinds of quacks. Full body X-Rays were de rigeur during the early days of chiropractry, to detect those all important subluxations. Not so much anymore, one hopes.
The main benefits a chiropractor provides are psychological. Besides the all important placebo effect, s/he will typically spend more time with the patient and develop a closer relationship than you will likely get from a harried doctor. First they have to get you to agree to come back three times a week (or whatever your medical plan can be taken for) and then they have to keep you coming back.
Pretty much the only real benefit for back pain etc, will be when the chiropractor has some skill in massage and/or physiotherapy.
One of the riskiest procedures is that neck manipulation you showed. It can damage an artery, leading to an aneurism or a stroke. In fact people who already have a damaged vertebral or carotid artery may have symptoms of neck pain which prompt them to go to the chiropractor. Death or brain damage may then ensue, sometimes right there on the table.
Temporarily 'straightening' your spine to promote the flow of your "Innate Intelligence" through your body is not how you cure "95% of diseases", let alone back pain.
Where would engineering be, if revelation from spirits were the source of all information? Trust science. Peer reviewed, repeatable science.
/hobby horse.
Man, you guys are making this way scarier.
Your posture in the first panel makes me giggle. Just makes me think "Igor raise the chains! Yeeessss Massster, eeehhhh!"
Cut to next comic where Jam is in a wheel chair, suing the pants of the "Doctor"
I'm not going to get involved in this whether-or-not-Chairopractors-are-blahblahblah discussion.
The facts of the matter are that he had a medical degree, he works in a full-on clinic, he was super professional, he never once tried to sell me $800 orthopaedic shoes and it helped. I believe it was more than placebo effect, I do had to do some work on my own to correct my own posture and strengthen/relax various muscles.
There are definitely shady doctors out there, but I wouldn't dismiss the whole practice. It's really not that different from ergonomics or physical therapy.
JAM!NOOOOOOO!
Omg why does it always end during the most intense part,WILL SHE SURVIVE?! XO
=D
I always dread when they turn my neck. I swear they're about to kill me.
I had a free massage done once and it was like this.
I thought the lady was going to kill me, I kept hearing cracks I thought were my body breaking in half!
MmmmMmmm... It helped with my neck when my chrio attacked it with electrics and cracking. Craptastic C2-3 decided to get back at me after years of bad sleep positions.
I actually have to go back since it's gotten worse from falling on my tailbone from snowboarding. Oh man, that felt bad... D-X
I've also been tossing the idea of saying (*$# it, and just go in and get a (IIRC) cortisol shot in the neck and just be done with it.
I have only ever heard stories of chiropractors like this. The one in my little town practices something called *active* chiropractics, which is not like this at all. They use a little thing that looks a bit like a pogo stick with a trigger, which they use in various places along your spine to realign it with enough force to move things, but quickly enough that it doesn't hurt. No pain, no damage, fifteen minutes max, and I walk out feeling far, far better (and it isn't just placebo, things do move around and you soon learn to tell when you're not quite in alignment).
I started going to the chiropractor two or three times a year (yes, that's all you need - when I started I was pretty messed up from terrible posture and I came back about once a month for four months or so) a few years ago, and I have definitely benefited from it.
So I'm not entirely sure why so many of these seemingly-useless chiropractors abound when this seems to work just fine ... but hey! Anecdotal evidence. I could be totally wrong.
Chiropractic has shown some benefits to suffers of lower back pain. But seriously, don't let them mess with your neck.
http://whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html
Let them manipulate everything else if you want to, but avoid the neck.
I am not one of those quick to anger hardened science fans, but I think you are better off trying something tried and true and well defined...There are just too many things that can go wrong with stuff like Chiropractic practice. And we are talking about someone (namely, your) well-being.
(Just not wanting to see the author of my favorite webcomic get crippled, etc...)
Guys the comics run several weeks behind my actual life, I have already had several treatments.
I'm pretty sure we're just sharing experiences and opinions by this point...
I heard that chiropractors were responsible for every bad thing that's ever happened.
A Medical Degree? Really? He actually said that he is an MD? That would be unusual, it seems to me.
Maybe you mean he has a Doctor of Chiropractic Degree (DC) or he is a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (ND).
Engineering is grounded in evidence based science. You wouldn't use Feng Shui or water dowsing in a design, would you? Why risk your neck, literally? Quit while you've a head.
Sheesh!
Hmmmm... can of worms successfully opened?? Ahaha... sorry, Jam!
I *am* pretty pro-science in how I try to think and process things, so I'm fairly skeptical about many alternative medicine methods. As I pointed out and like others pointed out, it can be beneficial, especially if they guy knows physiotherapy and massage. In that case it's probably a pretty awesome help for back problems.
But, yknow... I'm just sayin'... not entirely grounded in sound science. Maybe it's a bit of a harsh view to take, to doubt *nigh everything*, but I personally don't think being more lax in criticising unsound or fantastical practices is the way to go. It will end with you cramming down homeopathic remedies and praying to Fzn, the Smaller God of Back Pain Relief, I tell you!! Well, I'm kidding. As long as you get/got help and your situation has improved, I guess it's alright and like you said, that particular guy is probably legit. So no worries. Cheers!
The chance of having a stroke from cervical vetebral manipulation from chiropracting is low, anywhere between 1 in 400,000 to 1 in over a million. If it was any higher regulatory bodies i guess would have stepped in by now.
Done properly and within the proper scope of practice, chiropracting is a relatively safe albeit alternative approach to care. I know there are a lot of people who want an approach based on soley on hard science, but even in conventional Western medicine there are a lot of things that we know work, but dont understand or, in some cases, understand but dont know whether they work.
Ps Angela, love the comic: long time reader, first time commenter. Keep it up! :)
[citation needed]
http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/strokeaha;32/5/1054
This study does not examine the rate at which chiropractic manipulation leads to stroke. What it examines is the rate at which stroke is caused by chriopractic manipulation, and damningly indicates that chiropractic manipulation is the leading cause of stroke in under 45s (a stroke patient of the type they examined is five times more likely to have visited a chiropractor than a non-stroke patient).
Nowhere does it support the claim that the chance of stroke from chiropractic manipulation is low.
This page explains in detail the current state of research on this question (bottom line: it's dangerous but we don't have an exact number, due to insufficient data): http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
There are definitely benefits to chiropractic manipulation for back pain. However, they are the same as the benefits from real medicine like massage therapy, which is unsurprising since the techniques are almost identical. The only thing that modern chiropractors do differently is that they use brief, high-velocity impact instead of steady pressure, which increases the risks without adding anything demonstrably useful.
Here's an aphorism to remember: chiropractic == massage plus danger. Go to a massage therapist if you want the same results without the risks. Probably hurt less too.
I love the posture in the first panel XD Reminds me of one of my friends. I'm always telling her "STAND UP STRAIGHT!!"
I've been seeing a chiropractor like 1-3 times a year for around 8 years now. Started with a BMX injury, but now I go whenever I just can't seem to get rid of "that pinch" in my spine.
Reading the comments though, it seems like chiropractic is a great way to commit suicide O_O